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Show Transcription >>

Nitesh Batra 

Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Mindful Initiative Podcast. Today we are very privileged to have amongst us James Wood. James is an author, and also a spiritual teacher. At the age of 33, after many years of study, he woke up to reality, and has dedicated his life to the awakening of beings everywhere originally gained studied philosophy at the University of Texas at Austin, and then transformational studies with Richard Moss, he has combined his education experience and experience to express a modern integrated vehicle for others to use as a means of growth in consciousness. He is the author of 10 Paths of Freedom, Awakening Made Simple.

 

James Wood 

It’s realizing your true nature in the moment, through a relationship with what arises. So that what arises could be thoughts, feelings, or sensations. So what I teach is a conscious relationship to that content. And that is really what meditation is. Meditation is a conscious relationship with what arises. The judgment arises really, in that confusion, saying that the word is the thing. And it, it limits us, it shuts down our sense of ourselves. That’s what ego is.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Thank you so much, James, for being part of our show. Welcome. Thank you. For these interviews, we begin knowing little bit about our guests, especially about their upbringing. And if spirituality was part of their upbringing, and if it has, in some form, or other, continue to be part of their lives.

 

James Wood 

Yes, well, I, my father was agnostic. And my mother had a Christian Science background. I don’t know if you know about that church in the United States. But the Christian Science church focused on healing and practical prayer, you might say, so I was raised to use prayer proactively, and that’s informed my path.

 

Nitesh Batra 

And did you continue to be in the same faith? Or did it help towards your awakening in any way, this idea of prayer or it manifested in different forms for you, as you grew up?

 

James Wood 

Yes, well, there’s a teacher named Joel Goldsmith, who’s still I think, widely read, he was a Christian Science practitioner, the Christian Science practitioner would pray for people for healing. And he did that for a while. And he had his own awakening and eventually created his own form, called the infinite way. And so I went, I went off to college, my mother gave me a copy of his book, The Art of meditation. And I think that was a big influence on me. And although his work is Christian, it uses Christian language, it’s not in any way orthodox. The way I see it, it’s really, it’s a form of spirituality that uses Christian language. And it I never felt hemmed in by that. So, you know, I studied Buddhism and invited Vedanta and many other spiritual disciplines as well. But that was how it started, I think.

 

Nitesh Batra 

I think the beginnings help and influence us in many ways. And then we look back at our childhood. You know, there’s something interesting that I read in your book, you talked about meditation, and also prayer in different forms. In your book, which was written a while ago, you talk about meditation practice is different than meditation, right? One is a goal. One is a journey, but you mentioned about being awakened as well. So is the meditation journey leading to awakening? So that’s my first question. And then, if that is awakening, what is meditation?

 

James Wood 

Those are good questions. So you’re referring to chapter seven in my book,

 

Nitesh Batra 

that is correct.

 

James Wood 

It’s called meditation. There’s just section in that chapter on prayer as well. And I emphasize in there, and this really is informed by Joel Goldsmith and my earlier experience, I think, that really prayer and meditation are no different. They’re just approaching conscious relationship from a different angle, if you will. So a conscious relationship, the, it’s realizing your true nature in the moment, through a relationship with what arises. So that what arises could be thoughts, feelings, or sensations. So what I teach is a conscious relationship to that content. And that is really what meditation is. Meditation is a conscious relationship with what arises. So the process you’re talking about, or the practice of meditation is really, it includes learning how to sit, maybe, you know, posture, breathing, how to focus one’s attention, things like that, that are structural and geared toward getting you to a place where you can notice what’s arising within you. And usually it’s mental content is what’s noticed a stream of thoughts and so on. When we first learn how to sit, for example, we really don’t have much of a conscious relationship with that content, yet. We’re all somewhat conscious, obviously, we have to be conscious to function. But we usually aren’t aware of the thoughts that we have, in a conscious way, at least not fully. So there’s the process of becoming conscious. And then there is consciousness itself, that conscious relationship that I was talking about those really, technically speaking are different. And it’s interesting, you said, he suggested that one was a goal. And one was a journey, I think, you know, it’s interesting, it’s always a journey. I would say it’s not a static endpoint. It may seem that way. And it’s fine to look at it that way, maybe. But my experience of it is, it’s constantly new, constantly, in some sense, beautiful. When we make it conscious, it, it’s like its meaning speaks to us in a way that we can’t realize, unless we become conscious in that way. Otherwise, the thoughts capture us. And basically, we’re scared and feel separate from life.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Thank you so much. And I think the idea of it being static, will stop your growth. And I completely agree with that aspect, that both of them are helping us in one way or the other. I don’t know if you can have more awakening than an awakening, but we’re moving in that direction. That’s what I feel. And one of the things that you mentioned is that through the process of being aware, there’s this consciousness, which is this constant stream that’s going on in our mind, that is our consciousness, that eventuality, this awareness, one of the things that comes in the Advaita philosophy is this idea of Shravanan, which is listening, then manana, which is reflecting and then the third is the idea of Nidhidhaysanam and then something similar is in Buddhism, as well, in both traditions. Now, the first is Sharavanam, you know, you you listen or learn from your teachers, whether that’s now through audio, video, or reading whatever that is. And then you’re reflecting on those thoughts, which is somewhat that you mentioned, because that’s how you’re becoming aware of the consciousness. But the third aspect is, which is where I think the idea of awakening comes in. And my question is around the faith, because each faith has a different understanding of that. Growing up, you had a Christian faith, and then you read other traditions or read about Buddhism and art, let’s say Eastern philosophies, or Eastern religions. How do you look at this last phase when awakening happens? How do you live that in your real life is really my question. Because one says there is this emptiness one says there is the soul, and the other says there is heaven, right? So all that is different. And once you have that understanding, we have to live our real life, right? We have to do things, we have to have an action oriented life. Now my question to you is, with different traditions and different faiths. How do you find that intersection that one point or do you need to find that?

 

James Wood 

Yeah, that is a good question. And I was lucky because I wasn’t indoctrinated in any religion when I was growing up, like I said, My father was agnostic. And so he was kind of an intellectual and valued critical thinking and open mindedness. My mother again, you know, taught me about certain kind of prayer that is similar to meditation that I mentioned. So I never felt like, like I was hemmed in by any when you’re saying faith, like a religious faith, I never felt hemmed in by that. And so, you know, I felt free to explore. And in university, you mentioned, I studied philosophy, I just explored and I was fortunate that I took an Indian philosophy class, and was able to study Buddhist philosophy and, you know, Shankara, and, and others, and it really opened me up to this, I guess, appreciation that there’s one truth, and just many different ways to access that truth. So I don’t know, I may be a hurdle for some people, I suppose. You know, you’re saying I think he said, you know, could be emptiness could be the soul. It could be heaven, I think. I think the easy answers that they’re really all talking about the same thing. Now, I can’t prove that, but it’s a much I find that a much easier answer. Because why make it complicated? You know? So is it true? I mean, is that simple answer true? I would say it is. I think the ultimate truth is actually simple in a way, it’s, it is a one truth. It has a certain absolute nature, that when we realize it, it’s evident. And it’s basically who we are. This brings me, really back to Ramana Maharshi, who just said, you know, to whom does this arise? Who am I? And that when we realize who you are? And he would? I think he’s the term Self, right. Which could be self with a capital S, or I’m not sure if you were when you said soul, I don’t know, if you’re using it in that way. But we wake up to that. And it’s just who we are, and is the fundamental nature of reality. And then how do we live that excellent question. For me, honestly, it’s the Zen saying, before awakening, chop wood carry water. After awakening, chop wood carry water, it’s really no different. It’s just to whom does that chopping and carrying arise? Before awakening we imagine ourselves to be I would use the term ego, but it’s a separative. And separate feeling self. After awakening, one realizes oneself as consciousness, and that those are very different. And yet the same stuff is arising, if you will, they’re still thoughts, they’re still experiences, thoughts, feelings, and sensations still arise. It’s just who I am. is different. Yeah,

 

Nitesh Batra 

Thank you for that. And, you know, again, I couldn’t agree more that they’re all one truths. They’re all just one, eventually, or eventuality is one. But the spiritual paths may be different. And how you get there may be different. And I think that’s where and something that interested me a little bit more about you is, when you talk about morality, like when spiritual path and morality intersect, or they come to a common ground. That is where some of the questions come in. questions come in, because based on my faith, or whatever that faith being, I’m just using x as an example, that I believe that this moral is right. And that more or less, right? And somewhere we intersect. And that’s where the problems are coming in, in the world today. And the way I think about it, is that I’m trying to avoid certain difficult questions. And that’s one thing that you address when you talk about spiritual bypassing. So I want you to talk a little bit more about morality and spiritual bypassing, because I find both to be fascinating, and both to be similar, but very different.

 

James Wood 

Yeah, well, usually, I think spiritual bypassing usually is referred to a tendency for students of this work to skip the hard part skip difficult feeling. thinks that emotions and doing real work emotionally and so on. And instead affirming some of these more transcendent sounding precepts and so on and trying to live in them without really living in them, it’s a form of dishonesty. It’s like saying you’re the king of Siam. There is even a Siam is there, I think. But, you know, it’s one thing to say that it’s another to literally be that and so is, we don’t want to bypass that. But you know, I couldn’t help when I was hearing you introduce me in the beginning of the podcast. The thing saying, you know, James, awakened to reality, I think, is what’s in there. And, you know, honestly, it sounds grandiose to me. The problem is, the language often does sound grandiose. So that’s kind of the nature of it. When we talk about absolute truth and reality, it sounds very grand, it kind of is, and yet, where the rubber meets the road is how we live, and how authentic we are as human beings. So the morality for me is very simple, really, in a way, you know, Jesus’s followers asked him which commandments to follow. And he basically said, I’m paraphrasing here, he said, love God and love your neighbor as yourself. It’s that simple, in a way, and it, it’s because thy neighbor as thyself, as a consciousness is the reality. So waking up in a ways, it’s a simultaneous realization of self and other as one, not as two. There’s still a functional difference, obviously. But the essential difference has been erased, so that it allows us to love and to be compassionate. And I find really, that what we’re here to do is, is to realize the truth of who we are. And when we realize that truth, and you might call that God, see, you can love that. And then, and then you find it in your neighbor. And you love that. And when that comes alive in you, you automatically I find, seek to relieve suffering and the other, so it’s compassionate. And that becomes the basis for life. And it’s, it’s powerful.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Yeah, thank you, you. Just talking about compassion. That’s the next thing that I wanted to bring up. Because each faith is helping us live our life better, you know, our journey, small or long, however long we’re here for, to simplify things for us so that we can enjoy, we can be happy. Maybe I shouldn’t say the word enjoy. Because you know, that may mean different things. But yeah, just that you’re happy through the process of living and simplifying the complexities that life throws at you. And compassion is the new thing that has been coming along for a long time. And it’s been part of the yogic philosophy. That’s where I think the term first time came in from the 33rd Sutra of the yoga sutras in Patanjali. Karuna. And then, of course, the compassion studies have been a huge part in the last 10-15 years, and science has started to take a look at it. What are your thoughts about labels, because people have started putting more and more labels on things as if it’s an honor to be spiritual, religious. And you know, so many more new terms have come out. And the compassion is the new thing. But if you listen to the Dalai Lama, he says, that’s the only way that has been. That’s the only way for us to live because we live in a society that’s so interconnected. Anything that you look at, we can’t do alone. So just your thoughts about labels in our life, and how do we move away from that, so that we move towards the self or the capital as the reality that that you talk about?

 

James Wood 

Labels are necessary for us to live, we name things, and the confusion arises and we we have the name, which is really a thought that we’re having and we confuse that with the reality. So that could be a gender term. It could be a religious term, it could be political term. The thing is, These are just functional assessments. But it isn’t who we are and our essence, see who we are. And our essence cannot be captured by words, we could point to it like to say, this self or the soul, you know, you use the term emptiness earlier. I’m suggesting they’re all pointing at the same essence, cannot be spoken. So for meditating, were present and watching the stream of thoughts go by, and the realization is basically is that who I am, is that which is aware of the thinking, the labels, I mean, ran away, you could said, when you’re meditating, it’s just a stream of labels going by, and then all their relationships and so on. And I don’t know why I’m thinking of the movie, the matrix where they’ll sit and watch the code go by on the screen, I don’t know, you know, there’s a realization that, oh, that stuff, you know, that’s not who I am. That’s just code. Thou art that which witnesses that. And yet, that’s not who you are. And it’s beautiful, you know, it then becomes a functional play, I mean, the word Lila, you know, comes to me that, you know, a play of life, and that the purpose of life, one could say is to love one’s neighbor. And I think it is universal. Yes, Jesus said that. And yet, I think you mentioned the yoga sutras and Buddhism, I mean, it’s universal. And His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, you’re speaking of, I believe, has said, my religion is compassion. So that’s the part where we love our neighbor as ourselves. So we we realize the truth of who we are. And then we share it. And it doesn’t matter if the person you’re sharing it with, really understands it, or can relate in the same way, because it’s beautiful, and it’s fulfilling. It provides a moral basis as well, I would suggest, and that there’s a thought experiment that I’ve come up with very briefly, basically, think about someone you love very much, your grandmother, a child could even be a pet that you love very much. And the question is, would you want harm to come to that person or creature? The answer’s no, you can imagine it. And the thing is, you don’t have to think about it. It’s in us, we naturally when we love, when we truly love we seek not to harm. And we seek to relieve that suffering. So because it doesn’t involve thought, I would say that wouldn’t compassion, when you really boil compassion down to its essence, it’s a functional capacity that we have as conscious beings to love one another. And it manifests as a certain kind of harmony, that would also be morality in how we treat each other. I think the real challenge for us as human beings is to switch from that code based or mind based way of functioning and identity to a spiritually based, functioning an identity. And frankly, I think there’s a lot of turmoil in the world right now a lot of division and chaos. And politically as I haven’t seen anything like this in my lifetime, I think part of that is that the ego, that divided sense of self, that creates a self and and other, you know, us in them, you know, and creates divisions, that it’s putting up a fight. But it’s a good fight. And if we’re compassionate, then it’s as if we’re, we’re not literally warriors is kind of a silly term, maybe. But if we’re compassionate, love warriors. This is the work we’re here to do. And I find it. It’s not only fulfilling, but he’s a constant journey, as he put it earlier. It’s not a static

 

Nitesh Batra 

I think something to ponder about, as our relationships with other human beings evolve. And I love that thought experiment and it made me think, what would it take for me to do this for any and every human being? I think in your book, you mentioned something. Another fascinating thing was that any thought, his judgment, and it made me think it made me think, because it is, but then I thought about my experiences of meditation, or at least the goals that I’m trying to run away from the thoughts, the clarity of of the mind, yoga, chitta vritti nirodha, which is the second sutra and yoga that the purpose of yoga is to fill the mind sensation of thoughts and this judgment. In your Twitter feed. There was a tweet that you said, I had to look this up. But it really meant judgment changes like a passing phantasmagoria, while non judgmental awareness abides and calmness and natural curiosity about this will help you. Can you talk a little bit more about this whole process of the thought and the judgment and how this curiosity will help you? Because it’s an evolving process of judgment of the thought?

 

James Wood 

Yeah, another excellent question. I study philosophy, it can get a little philosophical, a little bit technical, perhaps. But okay, so you talked about labels? and philosophy, we don’t assume that a table is a table, for example. So we call it that that what is it actually? And that’s anyone who studies philosophy would not be surprised by that line of inquiry. It’s like, many people would think, well, of course, the table is a table. But really, it’s a name that we use, it’s a concept. It’s like, what is the thing independent of the concept that we have for that essential thing, and it’s interesting to me, the short answer to that, really, is that the labels that we use, the thoughts that we use, to describe our experience, are functional. So calling a table a table is useful. We can put our coffee on it and have a conversation, you know, and communicate using words that are, as you said, basically labels. But that isn’t essentially who we are, it is merely a description that we’re using, that has a functional function. And what is the function, when it comes right down to it, it’s for us to love one another, it’s to connect on the level of being, which is our true nature. So I can say on the level of the self, as in Ramana, Maharshi, we connect that way, the words cannot capture that relationship, but they can be used. The confusion is when we assume that the thought, in other words, the label is the thing. It’s like the thought fuses with it. So the most obvious way this can be problematic is if we have a racial designation, for example, for someone that is, you know, some of them are not even socially acceptable. They’re to call someone something, referring to their race, that’s an epithet is very divisive, and robs people of their humanity. And if you see cases, this is a bit dark, perhaps, but it’s important. I think, if you look at cases of genocide that have occurred in the past, what tends to happen first, is the language changes, and that these living beings become reduced to a term. That’s an racial epithet, usually. And I’m saying that shows us very clearly how dangerous that is. So that’s the basic thing we’re looking at. That’s the most extreme example of it. Sure, a table is a table. But, you know, it’s interesting. I mean, I can imagine your listeners are thinking, Well, yeah, tables, a table, who cares? I’m saying that if one really wants to wake up to this ultimate sense of truth and reality, then the table is really just a thought passing by. So the word phantasmagoria that I use there, that’s what that is. It’s like a It’s like a dream that passes. It’s like a parade of a phantasmagoria parade of objects. And it isn’t who we are, but we’re witnessing it. That’s the code. That matrix code going by. The judgment arises really, in that confusion, saying that the word is the thing. And it, it limits us, it shuts down our sense of ourselves. That’s what ego is. That’s we, we think of ourselves as a certain thing. We think of other people as things and we use the language in a way to reduce us to mental objects, basically. I don’t know. It does sound a bit technical. It’s really important though, I think. And so for us to really love one another, if to refrain from judgment is to, in a sense, a witness, your divinity and my divinity in the moment. It’s sacred, it’s wordless. Its moral as you put it. And then the the words and the thoughts are, it could be like birds flying by It’s beautiful. And yet there’s this open sky of being and that we’re here to love. And to enjoy as you put it to enjoy.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Yeah, the universal language of love and seeing the the human in the human without the labels without anything that’s in front of you. I think the example of table is an excellent way to think about it, how everything is just a passing reality. And yeah, there’s so many more questions that keep coming to my mind. But you know, our time is limited here. So I want to ask a final few questions. So these are questions that can be answered in one word, one sentence, or however long you want it to be. And this is just for our listeners to know you better. So the first question here is, tell us a childhood memory that brings joy to your mind.

 

James Wood 

I think when I My first memory was, someone asked me how old I was. And I held up three little, stubby fingers. And I remember seeing that, and that brings me joy.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Why is that? Not now? I’m really curious. Because my daughter’s three years old right now. And when you said three, you know, I was like, wow, so really cute.

 

James Wood 

Yeah, excuse me. It’s my first memory. And it’s very innocent, I think.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I think it’s, I’m going to share with my daughter tomorrow, she won’t remember anything. But yeah.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Our next question is a place that you would like to travel to maybe you’ve been there before, never been there, but would love to be.

 

James Wood 

I would love to travel to India and to see the Himalayas before I die.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Well come to India. One person in history that you would like to meet

 

James Wood 

Jesus.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Okay. I was going to do a follow up. I was like, why Jesus? And it might be obvious, but may not be obvious. And I’m curious why?

 

James Wood 

Well, I can only pick one. There are many others. I would love to meet Ramana Maharshi. Other spiritual leaders in lights and so on, sages, the Buddha taught for many years and people knew Ramana Maharshi. And we have really good records of that the records of Jesus teaching are not as good. And I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding about who he was. And I’d love to sit with him and have some tea and ask him some questions. So the wonderful,

 

Nitesh Batra 

alright, I’m in hope that happens. said a favorite book or a movie or a song. So I’ve given you three options. You can do all three, or just one or two. Well,

 

James Wood 

I just read a book by William Faulkner, American author that really just blew me away. I had never really I’d read him before. But I until I read this book recently. It’s called As I Lay Dying. It really moved me I’m from the South American South. And that’s what he writes about. And it was truly poetic. I felt like his prose. So isn’t my favorite. I don’t know it is right now. Yeah, it’s interesting. And then my favorite movie is usually a movie called the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, Sergio Leone, a. It’s epic, and wonderful and strange. So I could go on about that for a long time. But that’s my favorite movie.

 

Nitesh Batra 

We had the video cassette for The Good, The Bad and the Ugly when I was growing up, and I think I’ve seen that film probably 1000 times. And the music doesn’t go away. When I think of that film.

 

James Wood 

Yes, it has a certain timeless quality. I’m not sure why. But I’ve seen it many times. And I want to say this real quickly. As a spiritual teacher. One might think my favorite works would be innocent spiritual nature, and they are. And yet the fascination with our human experience is important. I mean, that it’s profound. There’s a poetry there, like what is love? What is, you know, what is war? You know, what is conflict, and then we were looking at what it means to be human. There are a spiritual lens into me. I guess that’s part of why I think some of my favorite works are works of poetry and beauty, that describe the human condition in ways that may include darkness, because that’s the human condition. So I think it’s important to understand that and to not shrink away from it. Yeah, the suffering aspect.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that brings me To the last question, one hopeful wish for the future.

 

James Wood 

Honestly, I don’t have one. And briefly out, the reason is, I would say that the seeds of the future are planted now. That’s what we have to realize. If we’re going to have a peaceful future, we realize that now, and then it appears as that. So world peace just happened.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Sorry, maybe I forced you on that and do that. But thank you, that’s a great way to end this segment. But really, thank you, thank you so much, James, for your insights, about life, about suffering, in many ways about labels about compassion, and about love and living life. I learned so much. And I’m sure our audiences would also enjoy listening and learning from you. If they have to know more about you. Can you tell us how can they reach you?

 

James Wood 

Yes, my website is Jameswoodteachings.com Alright. And Twitter is where I post for social media. Twitter is where I’m focused. And you can link to that from my website. Okay.

 

Nitesh Batra 

We mentioned that as well. But again, thank you so much for being part of the show. And look forward to hearing more about you and hopefully reading more books from you in the future.

 

James Wood 

Thank you. It’s pleasure to be here.

 

Nitesh Batra 

Thank you so much for tuning in for another episode of The Mindful Initiative Podcast. If you like what we do if you like listening to our shows, please share our podcast with your friends and family or on your social media. You can find us on iTunes or Google podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcast. Thank you so much.

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