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Show Transcription >>

 

 

 

Nitesh B.  00:22

Hello, and welcome to another episode of The mindful initiative podcast. Today I’m very excited to have with us Ron Lumsden who’s from Scotland. He started Art at Glasgow School of Art and did his post graduation certification education. He taught art for many years in London, for the Deaf and partially hearing units in secondary schools. Since the early 80s. He has traveled in many places around the world, and also lived in many countries, including Bangladesh, India, Japan, and Switzerland. He currently lives in Bangkok with his wife, he’s a practicing Buddhist, and also the author of the famous blog, Dharma Footsteps (https://dhammafootsteps.com/). He is also an author of with the same name of that book, Dharma Footsteps which can be found on Amazon.

 

Ron L.  01:11

It’s so good to be engaged with the skin, you have to find a convenient place where you are able to experience the pain. But somehow, it’s not affecting you so much, because you’re not actually engaged. It’s this huge list. And it’s this openness to change, his openness to something new is going to happen. And we are the change makers, we are the ones that will make the change. And the children grow up, knowing that that’s the case and they become the change makers. One more.

 

Nitesh B.  01:54

Well, welcome, Ron, thank you for being here. So we start our conversations asking about the upbringing of a person, and if faith or religion have had any role in their early age. So Ron, please, if you can tell us a little bit about your upbringing. And if faith played any role in your upbringing?

 

02:17

Well, I suppose faith did play a role in my upbringing, because if you can’t seem to avoid faith, it is almost there. But really, in a more general sense than my upbringing took place in the very north of Scotland. And in the north of Scotland, you know, it’s like, very, very extreme in the summertime, it never gets dark, it’s light for the whole night. And then in the wintertime, it’s total darkness for the duration of winter. So this is extreme that we’re talking about here. And I think it was one of my childhood was one of extremes. But anyway, let’s say I didn’t establish any link there. And so when I went to Glasgow, and that, but then I had left the north, completely different from Glasgow. Despite different from the north Glasgow, you see, then I made more connections and links with through my teaching in London. And then also, of course, I met some very, I was very fortunate to meet some good friends at various meetings, I can say that religion played a part, I must say faith play before. And you see, I studied art and so I was teaching quite often using cartoons. And for the Deaf and partially hearing, then these would be linguistic based. And they would be li ke I am walking or he is walking with a continuous form, “ing”, which is the most commonly used tense. And so unlike that is the and then I applied this to various contexts, and one of them would be for deprived children or children who are left out of the system completely. And that’s how I got on to like, development and and what’s happening in these countries with education and so on. And so anyway, I’ll tell you later, the whole story, but I was very fortunate to meet somebody who took me on, and I went to India, and he helped me get started experimental basis without his help, I think. So I was very fortunate in that case.

 

Nitesh B. 04:35

It was thank you for sharing the initial years, or the formative years of your life. And I find it fascinating to work with specially abled children, people who have hearing disabilities in your case, and you need a certain characteristic, to be able to work with them to be able to connect with them. And I’m sure you evolved as a person when you start working with them, and you worked with them for a long period of time. So I wanted to talk about that experience and that part of your life as to how did it open your worldview, when you started with working with such a diverse and gifted group of children?

 

Ron L. 05:16

Yes, I think that it opened me up in ways that I didn’t expect, didn’t ever expect. In the classroom. Let’s say you’re with children who are primary age children. So they’re about eight or nine, that that was a group that I had, some of them were profoundly deaf, and one or two were partially heating. And they all have their hearing needs growing. But of course, because they can’t hear their hearing, it does this whistling feedback noise all the time, because the ear after that starts collapsing, the socket that they put in their ears is always slightly loose, because they’re growing children. And they have to have ear molds made again, again. So then there’s that there’s also a behavior situation, because you can’t expect children who are deaf to sort of just conform to what you’re doing. So therefore, you have to get their attention. And that was really where I opened up, let’s say, as an actor, a performer does on stage, you know, that sort of thing. And then I had an assistant who would help with the little children and sort of point them in my direction. And then I could work with my assistant and getting the whole thing moving. But really, the thing that got them was the drawing on the board. So in the background, I would have a cartoon drawing, which obviously illustrated some story. And there would be some event that took place, and then it would close. And this is like a strip cartoon. And they got used to this idea. And they came rushing in in the morning and looked at this thing and studied it and they saw it was getting together. And then I could ask them what’s happening in this picture. And so on, and so on like this. And then throughout the day, there were opportunities like that, and other ways of getting their attention. And I just was learning as I was going along. These were the very young children Yes, is different. Of course, with the older adults, adults are doing same during the evening classes. And that was, I didn’t really need to do any of that for the adults. We were more involved in just communicating. And yeah, so the little kids were the ones that really, really got me going on this. And that’s how I learned lots of skills. In fact,

 

Nitesh B.  07:37

yeah, we have a young child at home, she just turned three. And I think we learn way more than she learns from us. Yes, and I love the word that you use that you had to become an actor in front of these children, because that’s what we do. Yes. But leaving that that stage, after working there for a long period of time would not have been an easy decision, because probably the love that you got from all these children would not have been easy. So I want to understand what made you move to the next phase of your life where you left? Not just a fulfilling career, probably but also something that you were probably enjoying and had become really good at.

 

Ron L. 08:25

Yes, it was a decision. And it was taken slowly. I mean, I decided to take one year off sort of sabbatical, you see, then, as far as my career goes, I think I was going to different schools in South London. And it was obvious that I would eventually become some kind of headmaster or whatever and mostly people go in that direction. But I was very much aware that there are plenty, most of them are women, actually. And they were very, very skilled. And I really didn’t like the idea of me becoming a headmaster in that kind of context. On the Besides, I had an open mind about all kinds of things around that time. And so this opportunity came up to go to India. And actually it was the first country I went to South India. So I left everything on hold. And they went off to India. And then by the time I’d done about it one year in India, I was ready for my second year. And I let everyone know back in London, but really, it looked very much like I was not coming back right away. And I’d like to keep in touch but really pleas, let me go now. After that it was a process of discovery. Some of some of the situations of course, were familiar, not because of little kids and the way that they learn and so on. But some of it, of course, was totally new to me, absolutely new. And that you were saying earlier, you learn to be an actor with children, but in this case, really the children were teaching me Education is a two way process and there’s no question. And the experience of these kids in South India, really, I mean, I had all kinds of concepts and ideas, and they’re just not valid in South India. So I had to sort of forget about a lot and relearn it. But again, I was fortunate to see I had adults there who were willing to help me. And I had lots of questions. We used to talk for hours, and so many questions with my friends in South India. So that’s what happened. Before I left London, there was an idea of writing a book or something, or creating a book children could use. And so I brought that idea with me to certain view, and we did actually do something in there. So that was quite satisfactory for me.

 

Nitesh B.  10:58

So it seems that you we explored a different facet of your mind and life and you started enjoying it more. And you wanted to go deeper in that regard?

 

Ron L. 11:09

Yes,

 

Nitesh Batra  11:10

You traveled to India, and India is in 80s would have been a very different country than what it is now. But still traveling from UK to India would have been different. And you didn’t stop there. You continue to travel after that? Is that correct?

 

Ron L. 11:25

Yes. Right. That’s it, you see, the connections that I made. In the second year in South India, after the first year, I was in Pondicherry, on working with a small group of volunteers who were part of a French organization, I think. And they were working with leprosy patients and the children of these parents. And it was very small and quite familiar and nice in there. And then the second year, I moved up to Bangalore. And then things really started to open up there as regards the people that I met. And so on discussions that we had planned as a result, I became involved with it, yes, it was a conflict group, I think. And there was a French priest there who introduced me all around. And then our next thing was I was being propositioned to make our comic book that would be suitable for disadvantaged children or whatever their children who had difficulties in addressing in society one way or the other. And that was left open to me. And that was really a topic of conversation. So it was an exploratory thing for me, I found it quite hard, actually, I find it quite difficult to do that. I mean, it’s certainly I think, produced the pictures and all that, but these will not immediately appropriate to South India. So so I was told and, and so I had to really learn, I had to relearn all kinds of things. And that was quite hard. But despite that, I came up with a comic book in the end. And then there was another one after that women workers and how they were abused, and all this kind of thing you’re familiar with in developing countries. However, the French priest had me booked in for going to Bangkok, where I will be able to connect with others in the region as he was he was connecting with all these individual groups. And he was putting them all together in under one umbrella. So when I met him, he was just gathering people. So I moved to Bangkok and continued with that, I continued to that for five years or so. And then I became more involved in what was going on with that particular group on child labor. And so that was that that again, there’s another shift. So it evolves. It evolves and became gradually what it is today.

 

Nitesh B.  14:04

And is that where Buddhism became part of your life where you were introduced to Buddhism, when you were in Bangkok?

 

Ron L. 14:10

Yes, right. It was wonderful, it was exciting. Well, it was a very exciting time and better, dynamic time, because I contracted cancer, right down the center of my being pain was colonic cancer down in the colon. And of course, I didn’t know what it was just terrible, terrible pain. And then I learned from some individuals about how to approach the whole problem, difficulty of pain. And this was really a Buddhist teaching, because in Thailand, they’re all Buddhists. 99% of the population of Buddhists. And then they brought me because really, they didn’t know what to do with me. They brought me to a Buddhist temple in the northeast. And that’s for another child. And anybody Listen, people know immediately that Manchester important place today. In those days, it was quite quiet. And that is the that’s where Ajahn Chah was doing his teaching, but he actually passed away a few years. So then I met the monks. And some of these monks were European, and German and English and American. And so I had a chance to ask these extraordinary young men. What this was really about telling me and I, you know, this immense curiosity that I had. And so, I began to wake up to the knowledge they gained in India, the books that I read in India, about Buddhism, but also about the Brahman and Atman. And all these aspects of non duality, non duality today, and I hadn’t really sort of made the focus on that so much. But when we went to Thailand, and went to work, then all of this woke up, and I realized I knew absolutely certain things. So I jumped over hurdles, I just simply went racing ahead. And then I was completely convinced. So I stayed there in the temple, for on and off that period of like, say, three months, six months, but my stay was only a week, a week, every three months, whatever. And then I participated in all kinds of things that were going on, through the same contact list in Bangkok. And so from that time, you see, convinced about Buddhism on absolutely certain that this is an important thing in my life. And needless to say, of course, they I recovered from cancer, and that whole experience of the colonic cancer was part of my awakening in what? Understanding what Buddhism was really about. So that’s it in a nutshell, let’s say,

 

Nitesh B. 17:10

Did you have to go through medical treatment? for cancer?

Ron L. 17:15

Yes, yes, yes, that’s it. You see, when those days, I don’t know what it’s like today. But in those days, the surgery for cancer was like, really quite large. So the whole torso is opened up and pulled back on the entire contents of everything is taken out, as far as I know, of this, there was an event. And then they sift through this, and the surgeon told me this afterwards, you know, and he found two tumors, and he snipped the mechanism. And he made this gesture of throwing it on his shoulders like that, that’s the thing of the past. And then he found another one, and did the same thing. And then everything gets back in again, sewn. And then after six months, they open everything up again. And so we have to go through this twice, the first time, I should say that installed some kind of sphincter inside, which allows the waist to fall into a bag plastic bag, which is adhered to the skin. So you never have to go to the toilet for that duration, and then only come back after six months, they open everything up, reverse all of that and put you back to normal again. So that was obviously a huge experience. And the marks actually were with me all the way through this. And it was tremendous pain involved. And they again, I found out all kinds of things about pain, which was a very large subject. My blog a lot. Yeah, I could talk about pain, no pain really quite well. And I know people now through the blog, but also know pain very well. Yeah, that was it. But really, it was the operation after surgery. So on recovering from that, which had a big effect on me.

 

Nitesh B.  19:15

It’s interesting that Buddhism came in at the same time when you were going through such a difficult time in your life. And not just through the physical pain, but mental trauma as well, because it’s something not easy to work with. And so understanding of the mind. And as you mentioned, that you understand pain very well. And that’s the other thing that you have been dealing with something for the last few years. Would you like to talk about the pain that you’ve been dealing with since 2014? I believe 14-15

Ron L. 19:51

Yes, it’s an odd thing. You see, I always thought that eventually I would not have to deal with pain anymore because I knew exactly what this was. I was looking forward to the time like in the torso, the pain actually in the center of your being this, this deep, very, very deep pain right in the middle of that. It’s like being a fly pinned to the wall or something. Eventually, you see you expect it all to go away. And in my case, it did go away. But then I got this other thing, which came along with, say, a decade after that. And when this when I was getting used to the idea of not having to deal with pain, then I had this headache situation, which I have today. And it’s a pain, it’s sometimes is quite dramatic. But it’s not the same as the surgery pain. The pain is caused by both the kind of neuralgia and it’s on the right side of my head. So that means my ear is affected. And my eye is a little bit affected also. And it’s to the right of ear nerve, which is about here. Let’s see, it’s all down here and over on top of my shoulder. And this is caused by what we call it again, Postherpetic Neuralgia (Ph. N) is caused, when I was a child in Scotland, you know, we were all given these vaccinations for various things. flu vaccination, it was I forget. Anyway, this vaccination that we all got. And I’ve checked this because I know a blog with a Ph. N sufferers. And we’ve discussed this at length this for like, say 20% of adults, the whole thing reoccurs. And what you get, you get abscesses and ugly sort of red marks all around the affected area. So I suddenly had all this, see, and I went to the doctor, and I was in India at the time, was many years later in Delhi. And I went to the doctor and he was very busy. And he said, Ah, yes, okay, here’s some treatments and so on. Next, and I really didn’t know what it was. I thought I mean, okay, it would have happened. Anyway, I can’t blame the doctor at all, for being so flippant in that way. But then when I came to Thailand to say and ask the Thai doctors, terrific language problem, if you don’t have thankfully in India, so I didn’t really get any satisfactory explanation there. So I just had to experience this thing and get to know it. And, yes, and so of course, nowadays, I’ve had it for five years. And nowadays, I don’t really know how to deal with it. And I know when I can’t deal with it, and I take medicine all day, usually, one days, medicine is all that I can, the body can improve. It’s very interesting medicine, because the next day rolls around, everything is past from the body, there’s no residue left of the previous day’s medicine. So then you start again. And then you can control or you can exceed or you can balance the medicine that goes into the body. And that does help. That does help at first that are ordinary events, intercede see life as normal? That’s nice. Yeah,

 

Nitesh B.  23:23

So the question that comes to mind is these medicines are helping you with physical pain. But the mental pain is what you’ve been mentioning, and your practices in Buddhism, have been helping you to some extent, or maybe the fullest extent, to work through this pain to go through these difficult times. What are some of these practices?

 

Ron L. 23:46

Yes, well, the only thing I can say about that is that, sure, there are many practices, do things with the breath, you can just focus entirely on the breath, and the in breath and the breath. Now that’s very easily said. The way I do that nowadays, and this is like after many years of, of knowing this practice, is that I think very quickly, in breath and out breath, it’s not the time I do say four or five cycles of in breath out breath like that. The whole system has taken over inside my mind and body. And there’s a belling in the pain, but it’s sort of a one step removed from that. And this is something I’ve learned to be decided and not actually in front of it and involved and engaged with it. It’s no good to be engaged with this pain. You have to find a convenient place where you are able to experience the pain, but somehow it’s not affecting me so much because you’re not actually engaged. So various versions of that. I’m using now just automatically, but when it happens and like even during the day, but eat right now, I’m aware of a pain that is circling around the somewhere. And then I just have to be aware of that and allow that to pass and allow that to be, then the whole thing, of course, about pain. And I think anybody would say this is the do you learn these things, because you have to, you learn about the pain, because there isn’t any choice, you have to face the pain at some point. And it’s like enormous fires burning in front of you. And you’re pushed back further and further against the wall. And these these pains are like huge flames above your head. It’s getting nearer and nearer, and you can’t get away. And it’s that point when you realize that you can’t escape, and you go into the flame. Because there isn’t any choice. You go straight into the flames. And then you discover it’s not really as bad as I thought it was, there’s a sort of pause this kind of conceptual pause that takes place there. And if you’re aware of these things, you curious about that? Cause How did that process occur. And the next time that happens, when you look again, for the cause of this procedure of stepping it back into the flames. And noticing this pause, that’s all I can say about it really is just a slight change, that makes a huge difference. That kind of thing.

 

Nitesh B.  26:43

You know, when I hear you going into flame, initially, I was thinking about that there’s an experiencer who is experiencing something you’re so you’re separating what you’re seeing, now you’re taking it a step further that whatever you’re experiencing, you’re placing yourself in the middle of it, but still observing it. And I think it’s also relevant, that when you have fears, because we’re trying to avoid our fears, by keeping ourselves away, but you’re saying no, let’s take it head on when you don’t really have a choice. And that makes it easier and easier. Not but at least, there’s no other choice. Other than that, I think that’s extremely helpful. And given that what one is going through in their life, they may not see it that way. Because of their practices. Because of their training, people go into depression people go into in different ways of responding to pain in their life. Now coming back to I just want to understand it a little bit further, given that your training has been in the field of art. And artists have a beautiful way of seeing the world and connecting the dots and responding to situations. And you’ve done some incredible work on your blog as well, where you’re combining art from from some of the old pieces. And if people haven’t seen it, please go and see this on Ron’s blog, how beautifully he has used his art, but your training as an artist to see that. Do you think that makes it easier for you to make a decision that, you know, let me try something new? Or let me see where this takes me? Or sometimes when I think of scientist and they’re asking for proof constantly, like what’s the proof of this? Does this happen? That happens? Right? Have you ever thought about how your training is a little different, that has helped you prepare for who you are or what you’re going through right now?

 

Ron L. 28:38

Yes, no, it’s really one experiences things over the years. If I look back on the time that I was studying art, at that time, I really wanted to be an artist, I was completely involved in that. And this was a wonderful sort of revelation, let’s say about some aspects of myself that were new to me. A lot of it is like that. It’s that you discover so many new things about your thinking and so on. But then, actually, I was disappointed in the end. And that’s what made me change, I just realized that the finished work of art was all very well. But surely there was something else here. And I was looking for some kind of practical application of our applied art and some way and if it was applied to something else, like for example illustration, then it carried meaning from the book, the text that was being illustrated. So then it had the support of that without the support of a text or the application that you chosen without any of this standing by itself didn’t satisfy me. I mean, I would work for hours and hours and days and weeks and months. And then when I came to the end of a couple of pieces, I really have to think now was that really worth it. And then I came to conclusion, I had to do something else I had to move on. So then a teacher teaching children, and then that became rather fascinating. And then I had a good friend who helped me understand what it meant to teach deaf children. And that, of course, I’ve discussed already. And gradually, I moved away from the individual work of art. And I was using it as an application for all as a support system, whatever as a means of expression together with something else. I know. I’m having to do something, but then I don’t have a great plan. And I think that’s what I used to be like before all these wonderful plans that come to nothing. So I’m so actually the laboring of that in my own mind. And I don’t, I might actually get around to it one day. But so far, I’m interested in what the result of this is for scenarios and looking for results. I don’t feel that my user can start any new projects. It’s more like, what have I accumulated, because my accumulated knowledge is one form of writing, I think. So those various things I have, in my mind, my blog, keeps me interested, especially if I know that are people who are reading it, and are interested in it. And I sometimes don’t have time, actually, before I became very ill with a headache when I was getting so many comments. But two years, three years ago, that’s a huge dialog at the end of each one, comments are developing from other comments and people joining in and it was just so much going on there. So that did require a lot of energy, and then everything after that, and never revert back to that level. All these friends are still there. They are.

 

Nitesh B.  32:11

Well, you know, I would call you the artist of body and mind if, if I’m supposed to give a title to you. We’re coming towards the end of our conversation. I do have one last question. Before we get to the list of small questions. We have traveled and stayed in many places. What is one thread that you think, guys, the human race together? And of course, it’s based on your experiences?

 

Ron L. 32:42

Yes, that’s quite a question, isn’t it? Yes, I suppose. But if I look at the countries I’ve been in their own. Well, I mean, like the Asian countries that, but most of them are developing countries in one way or another, then you will have countries like Japan and you can you say developed for Japan, I think Japan is still developing and terrifics. There is no such thing as a developed country. We’re all developing, we’re all growing. And there, most of these countries like, okay, I’ve been to Nepal, Bangladesh, India, Indonesia. And that’s all I can remember now. But let’s say that, let’s take that group. I know that, because I did a comic book for them. And it was distributed. And these four countries, they all have different characteristics. But they’re all in this state of developing, they’re all in this state of change their own way, they are wide awake and the people who are instrumental in this whole thing. The local leaders and an Africa radical change makers, the ones who create change are absolutely wonderful, because they are totally alert to any new thing that comes along. And then of course, it’s up to them. It varies group by group, how they apply these things that they’ve learned. And there are forum advisors coming in with their whatever they have to say, but most of it is local. Most of it is known locally, because we’re all able to read and learn from what has been written in the past, although not many of us are actually reading Nowadays, they are portrayed in the movies. That’s the string that would tie the whole group together for me. And then I’ve included Japan there because I was there for two years. I know it quite well, but still there’s a characteristic there. They recognize that this exists in these other countries came about to to go but let’s see, let’s see the bigger picture now. That kind of thing. Yes, that’s it. And then maybe one last thing here. I noticed when I’m talking with my American friends, and because I come from a small country myself and when I speak with an American friends have a sense of this hugeness that these individuals are standing on a piece of land, as far as I can see, and the curvature of the earth and it’s still America. Now the same thing goes for India. That is a kind of consciousness in India. Like we come from an enormous continent here, we’re standing on this vast place. And, like, for me, that’s informative, because I come from such a small country. And the Japanese actually a bit like the Brits, the people from the UK, come from this small country. And it’s this hugeness, emphasis, openness to change, this openness to something new is going to happen. And we are the change makers, we are the ones that will make the change locally. And the children grow up, knowing that that’s the case and they become the change makers when they’re adults.

 

Nitesh B.  35:59

Thank you, I think that’s, even though we are changing every minute, everything around is changing every minute. And still there is this desire, this innate need that we want betterment off everything around us. And I think that’s what inspires and glad you notice that inspiration in not just the younger generation, but everyone around let’s make lives better around us. Imagine it, so thank you.

 

Nitesh B.  36:33

All right. So now I have a few questions for you, which are just a way for us to know a little bit more about you. You can answer them in one word, one sentence, or in one paragraph, or even longer, however you feel it fit. And the first question is a place that you would love to travel to. Maybe you’ve already traveled there, maybe you would like to travel in the future.

 

Ron L. 36:57

Yes, I’ve done so much travel. But now when I, when I think of it, I think of suitcases and hotels and all that kind of thing. But if I were able to go to a country, I think it would probably be an Asian country. I still feel that South India is the place for me maybe the deep south down towards Sri Lanka. So I would like to go to Sri Lanka, because it’s a Buddhist country. And I have some friends there. I’ve never been. And then of course, is also Kerela. Oddly enough, most of the NGOs in India from so lots of connections to that’s more than one sentence.

 

Nitesh B.  37:37

That’s perfect. One memory from your childhood that just sparks joy.

 

Ron L. 37:43

The Aurora Borealis, you know what that is? Yes, it’s seeing this in the north. I remember coming. I’ve seen it many times. But this one very dynamic experiences coming back far. And we’re coming up to Aberdeen and you just come over a slight Hill, then the whole of Aberdeen is available for your visual update the entire thing. And if it’s nighttime, all the lights, in time. And then above that. The lighting in the spectrum of tiny raindrops. Yes, very impressive.

 

Nitesh B.  38:25

That sounds so wonderful. I have heard about it. I’ve seen so many pictures of it. And I can visualize it when you’re talking about it. Our next question is a person you would like to meet in history in the past one person, if you have the opportunity to travel back, who would you like to meet?

 

Ron L. 38:44

Well, there’s lots of people but I think probably a novelist or novelist and actually, last thing I was doing in my reading is reading a lot of crime fiction. I admire the way that these authors are able to be to write these stories. And and there was a time when I became quite disciplined that Patterson, B. Patterson, anyway definitely was the one. And he was a he was just a crime novelist. And all these factors are the same every in every book. I’d like to spend some time time he’s passed away now when he was at his peak, and learn from creative man, a very, very creative.

 

Nitesh Batra  39:32

And one interesting fact about Scottish people. And one interesting fact about Thai people.

 

Ron L. 39:39

Well, actually, they’re both the same in the sense that they are isolated, they are very isolated from the rest of the world, you know, because the country was never colonized. And so it had its own way. We had a series of kings, and they never met any foreigners and any British colonial invaders. I would say the same thing, actually about so many suprised is that they are slightly remote, you know, you have to work hard to get to know them. And they don’t realize that it’s changing at first because of what’s going on and modern times does that not the same kind of thing happens in Scotland, you know, because we don’t really have much to say about the English. The English are the colonizers, they’re the ones who come and use Scotland for all the happy pursuits of shooting the grass and so on for their aristocracy. So I would say to Scott, in their refusal to accept England, this is a little bit cheeky, you know, because I know that my English friends, have something to say about this, but they have some similarities with the Thai’s. That’s all in terms of similarities. Otherwise, totally – different.

 

Nitesh Batra  41:06

And your favorite film or favorite song, any one of the two.

 

Ron L.  41:13

I was watching TV last night. And I saw Star Wars Star Wars series. Now, I feel cheated, because I never, I was never able to follow this series of Star Wars. And I’m beginning to understand now – Star Wars – Return of the Jedi. Last night I watched it, and it was fantastic. And all kinds of nice visual effects from Star Wars series of moments.

 

Nitesh B.  41:54

All right, and one last question. What is mindfulness mean to you?

 

Ron L. 42:01

Well, let’s take second, heed fullness is being authentic of anything else. It’s being awake and aware of what you’re doing all the time, as far as possible, and then we might stop and say, there was a moment there when it was not mindful, then acknowledging the fact that people are not mindful, the same as being . So when in this way, you’re able to sort of double check everything as you go along about your own mindfulness in your work environment. It seems to me. Mindful Initiatives, wonderful title.

 

Nitesh B.  42:49

Well, thank you, I think it’s perfectly it’s exactly what mindfulness is all about being in the moment. And today, in our conversation, we had such beautiful and mindful moments, that I’m going to enjoy listening to it a few more times.

 

Nitesh B.  43:08

Yeah, thank you so much, Ron, for taking our time to speak to us. Thank you for sharing your life story. It’s going to inspire many, who are going through difficult times in their life, how to manage them, and maybe give them a path. Or maybe show them the way of fighting through different struggles in life and figuring out how to find happiness, how to live with whatever the current situation is. So I really appreciate you sharing the depths of your life with us.

 

Ron L.  43:46

Thank you so much, the Nitesh.

 

Nitesh Batra  43:52

Thank you so much, everyone for listening in to another episode of The Mindful Initiative podcast. If you like and enjoy listening to our podcast, please share it with your friends and family. We are available on all platforms from iTunes to Google podcasts, to Spotify. Thank you.

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